Un Airbus manque à l'appel... Juin 2009

C-GBVK · Post by **C-GBVK** » Tue 09 Jun, 2009 22:55

Bonjour

Theo007 wrote: Pourquoi l’avion peut envoyer les infos et problème mécaniques en « direct » mais pas l’info qui se retrouve dans la boite noire ?????????

Dans l'industrie
Les informations viennent tous de la même source les sondes via traitement dans l'ordinateur ensuite elle sont acheminé (dans la boite noir) ou disque dur de stockage
Quand on veut savoir de facon trés detaillé dans le temps un probléme on fait des rélevés au 10 millisecondes et voir plus court pour certain applications donc cela fait énorme comme volume de données

(pour une boite noir dans un avion je ne sais pas si les données sont rafraichie dans des temps aussi petits et probablement qu'une action sur les commandes n'as pas besoin d'etre aussi detaillé a la millisecondes
Les conversations des pilotes c'est relativement simple et pas volumineu .

Cela depend toujours de ce que l'on recherche a moniteurer, et a savoir comment on traites les informations ..

Dans l'industrie l'usage intergrale d'un automate programable (ordinateur ) pour controler un four a gaz est defendu on doit installer une circuit en double avec des contacts et filage , de facon a avoir une option manuel plus sécuritaire ..

OlivierC-FWOL · Post by **OlivierC-FWOL** » Wed 10 Jun, 2009 07:40

Théo, envoyé un message de bris mécanique équivaut à envoyer un message texte et envoyé toutes les données en temps réel équivaut à transmettre en temps réel un film en HD qu'on tourne live. C'est énorme comme quantité de données.

Fais de la webcam pendant 1 semaine à tous les soirs avec un membre de ta famille, et tu regarderas ton compte internet et la bande passante que ça a pris.

flyingjoss · Post by **flyingjoss** » Wed 10 Jun, 2009 09:03

Ça parle de plus en plus de problème de pitot. Air Caraïbe rapporte un incident suite au givrage des sondes pitots de leurs A330. Pour ceux qui sont tenté de lire:

http://www.eurocockpit.com/docs/ACA.pdf

La séquence dure 2 min et le nombre d'alarmes est impressionnant. L'équipage à du se retrouver dans le jus très vite. On voit aussi qu'en fonction des check list qu' il y a des actions contradictoires suite au message de décrochage.
Si cette les pitots étaient restés gelés, additionné d'autres facteurs comme turbulences sévères etc...

Je ne cherche pas à trouver la cause du vol AF447 mais juste à montrer combien une situation en vol peut devenir vite stressante et difficile à interpréter en fonction de la situation.

Mes condoléances à toutes les familles...

treer1 · Post by **treer1** » Wed 10 Jun, 2009 12:57

flyingjoss wrote:Ça parle de plus en plus de problème de pitot. Air Caraïbe rapporte un incident suite au givrage des sondes pitots de leurs A330. Pour ceux qui sont tenté de lire:

http://www.eurocockpit.com/docs/ACA.pdf

La séquence dure 2 min et le nombres d'alarmes est impressionnant. L'équipage à du se retrouver dans le jus très vite. On voit aussi qu'en fonction des check list qu' il y a des actions contradictoires suite au message de décrochage.
Si cette les pitots étaient restés gelés, additionné d'autres facteurs comme turbulences sévères etc...

Je ne cherche pas à trouvé la cause du vol AF447 mais juste à montrer combien une situation en vol peut devenir vite stressante et difficile à interpréter en fonction de la situation.

Mes condoléances à toutes les familles...

Merci du lien, je viens de le lire au complet, très technique mais surtout très démonstratif de la difficulté de piloter dans ces conditions

Bye
treer1
Eric Tremblay

flyingjoss · Post by **flyingjoss** » Wed 10 Jun, 2009 19:53

Un site interressant:

http://www.securiteaerienne.com/node

En particulier cet article qui explique les conséquences éventuelles du genre de panne mentionné plus haut, avec Quantas cette fois ci:

http://www.securiteaerienne.com/node/137

iceman · Post by **iceman** » Fri 12 Jun, 2009 12:55

Pour repondre a certaine s questions voici ce que je viens de voir au sujet du suivis des avions et donnees de vol en parcour:
(C'est un peu long et en englais mais donne l'info)

Advanced Aircraft-to-Ground System Upgraded for Continuous Data Streaming
Written by AEROMECHANICAL SERVICES LTD.
Friday, 12 June 2009
AeroMechanical Services, Ltd has completed testing of an upgrade to its Automated Flight Information Reporting System (afirs(TM)) that allows continuous streaming of GPS position and aircraft parameter data from aircraft to ground in addition to the currently deployed event-driven reporting of position and selected aircraft data. The prototype development started several years ago with Aloha Airlines, but was interrupted when Aloha ceased operations in 2008. Because of afirs(TM)'s use of the Iridium satellite constellation and its own GPS receiver, afirs(TM) can report from any point on the earth to any other point through its internet delivery system.

As the data are analyzed to find the causes of the Air France Flight 447 tragedy, calls are being made for a "live black box", a method of streaming critical flight information in real time to provide insight into incidents in the event that an aircraft's Flight Data Recorder cannot be recovered. Even though the aircraft may have been operating out of radar coverage, Air France Flight 447, an Airbus A330-200, was very well equipped with a system that transmitted aircraft status and position data via a satellite communications method, without which the aviation community would have limited information with which to proceed with the accident investigation. Yet even aircraft equipped with these advanced technologies (and many are not) are subject to the limitations inherent in any system that is not programmed to automatically "stream" (continuously transmit) position and Flight Data Recorder (FDR) data in real time under a set of pre-defined conditions (e.g., loss of cabin pressurization, rapid change in altitude or attitude, engine failure, or excessive "g" loads). At a time when calls are being made for new technologies and changes to legacy systems, it should be made clear that such solutions currently exist, are certified for aviation use, and are commercially available.

Under the brand of FLYHT, AeroMechanical Services (AMS) of Calgary, Alberta, Canada manufactures and markets the afirs(TM) 220, a "smart" box capable of being programmed with any number of specific conditions that would trigger a streaming mode for position and FDR data. afirs(TM) provides an automated link between onboard avionics (including GPS and the FDR), a global satellite network called Iridium that has no coverage gaps anywhere on the globe, and a ground based web server called UpTime that automatically routes messages to any designated recipient, all within seconds. afirs(TM) also provides an independent 2-way voice capability for crews to contact ground personnel, also over Iridium with no coverage gaps anywhere in the world. The afirs(TM) system uses an Iridium satellite modem that is capable of streaming data to the ground at a rate of 2400 bits per second from anywhere around the globe. Iridium provides sufficient bandwidth for afirs(TM) to send pre-defined parameters recorded each second by the Flight Data Recorder. Unused bandwidth is available to send additional data recorded every second by the AFIRS system, including valuable GPS position and certain discrete parameters not usually recorded by FDRs. In normal operations, reports are typically sent every 5 minutes, but that reporting interval can be adjusted either by the operator or automatically by an event on board. The periodic data stream occurs automatically when the afirs(TM) system functions in "normal" mode and transmits key operational data by means of short burst data (SBD). When a critical condition is detected, the afirs(TM) system can automatically switch to emergency mode and start streaming data. The combination of normal transmissions of short burst data and emergency streaming of critical position and FDR data is a significant contribution to aircraft safety and efficiency as well as being cost effective.

In addition to pre-programmed events that trigger position and FDR streaming, the system's emergency mode can be manually initiated by the pilots via a cockpit "event button" in hijacking or other non-system related emergencies. Once the emergency mode is initiated automatically by a systems event or manually by the flight crew, any number of alerts and displays can be generated at the airline operational control center (AOC), and any person or facility anywhere on the planet that has internet connectivity or a phone can be alerted automatically, including air traffic control. Redundant ground-based IBM host servers within the UpTime(TM) system receive the data from the aircraft and generate alerts and messages in the predetermined manner selected by the airline, sent out by e-mail or other messaging formats, all within seconds. This functionality is easily customizable by the airline. An operator can generate the streaming request from the ground by sending a secure message to the aircraft through the UpTime interface.

"Our afirs(TM) UpTime(TM) technology has since 2004 been tracking aircraft in all parts of the world using Iridium for satellite communications, and sending pre-defined data from the aircraft periodically during routine and non-routine operation of the aircraft, including previews of events that are outside normal ranges. This new extension of our afirs capability will allow an operator to receive all data on a continuous basis from an aircraft if it encounters a major in-flight issue, or if the crew choose to initiate continuous streaming of data and position reports", stated Richard Hayden, President of AMS. "This capability is not only valuable in improving responses to in flight issues, but in the rare case where an aircraft goes down, this data stream can provide immediate insight into the exact flight path and possible cause of the accident".

One of AMA's customers who flies long over water routes to remote areas of the world is North American Airlines, a charter operator based at JFK Airport in New York. Paul Sterbenz, NAA Vice President for Strategic Development, states "North American Airlines has equipped all of its aircraft with afirs over the past eighteen months. We are very pleased with the results that we are experiencing to date. Still, we believe that we are barely scratching the surface in the use of this cutting edge technology. We look forward to further development and additional functionality, such as streaming data, that will come on-line in the months ahead."

Unless the aircraft black boxes are recovered from the ocean's mountainous bottom in mid-Atlantic, it is doubtful that the precise cause of the AF447 tragedy will be known. What little data were received, however, was due to real-time satellite-based communications capability that should be standard on all aircraft flying outside of radar and terrestrial-based data communications coverage, especially given that streaming position and FDR information is available today. afirs(TM) is certified by Transport Canada, the FAA, EASA, and CAAC (China) for use on over 30 aircraft models. Currently, 31 operators in 6 continents have contracted with AMS for afirs(TM) and many are tracking aircraft on transoceanic flights and in remote areas that are not fully served by ground based receivers and radar.

About AeroMechanical Services Ltd.

AeroMechanical Services Ltd. provides proprietary technological solutions and services designed to reduce costs and improve efficiencies in the airline industry. The company has successfully patented and commercialized three products and associated services currently marketed to airlines, manufacturers and maintenance organizations around the world. Its premier technology, afirs(TM) UpTime(TM), allows airlines to monitor and manage aircraft operations anywhere, anytime, in real-time.

PAN AIR · Post by **PAN AIR** » Thu 02 Jul, 2009 20:45

Selon le BEA, le vol AF447 ne s'est disloqué en vol, mais se serait plutôt abimé en mer.

Selon l'observation des débris retrouvés, ce constat annonce la thèse d'une forte accélération verticale.

Aucun gilet de sauvetage n'a été endossé ce qui confirme un des éléments de cet accident.

La recherche des boîtes noires se continue jusqyu'au 15 juillet 2009!

PAN AIR · Post by **PAN AIR** » Thu 02 Jul, 2009 21:23

Dans quelques moments à RDI, les Boîtes Noires une technologie vétuste!

treer1 · Post by **treer1** » Thu 02 Jul, 2009 21:35

PAN AIR wrote:Dans quelques moments à RDI, les Boîtes Noires une technologie vétuste!

Tr;es intéressant, je viens de le voir et il repassera à Rasio-canada vers 10:20 ce soir.

Bye
treer1
Eric Tremblay

iceman · Post by **iceman** » Wed 22 Dec, 2010 01:54

Nouvelles sur des problemes de tube pitot qui peuvent avoir causer un accident d'un Airbus A430-300 en 2009.

Tres interessant a lire et on peu se poser des questions

Voici une copie de l'article:

Airbus Gives New Warning On Speed Sensors
Manufacturing.Net - December 21, 2010

PARIS (AP) -- Airbus has warned pilots about a dangerous potential malfunction of speed sensors on aircraft like the Air France A330 that crashed into the Atlantic last year, killing all 228 people aboard.

The European jet maker on Monday sent the warning over the sensors, called Pitot tubes, to the roughly 100 operators of its A330 and A340-200 and A340-300 long-range, widebody aircraft.

Airbus said Tuesday it has discovered in some cases two Pitot tubes can give matching, incorrect speed data, which could lead pilots to re-engage autopilot prematurely. Airbus spokesman Justin Dubon said the warning advises pilots not to re-engage automatic pilot following questionable readings from airspeed indicators until they have double-checked the readings.

Pitots are suspected of a role in the June 1, 2009, Rio-to-Paris crash that came during a strong thunderstorm over the Atlantic.

Search teams have failed to find the plane's "black box" voice and data recorders. Without those, investigators may never learn why the plane crashed in a remote part of the Atlantic Ocean, in depths of up to 4,000 meters (13,120 feet).

Automatic messages sent by the plane's computers just before it crashed show it was receiving false air speed readings from airplane sensors known as Pitot tubes. Investigators have insisted the crash was likely caused by a series of failures and not just the Pitot tubes.

doloair · Post by **doloair** » Tue 05 Apr, 2011 20:33

Bonsoir
On ne peut pas passer sous silence cette page d histoire dans le monde de l aviation après 2 ans passé on remonte les corps et les pièces d appareils, du fond de l eau à 3 milles mètres

incroyable
Dolorès

http://tempsreel.nouvelobs.com/actualit ... -mois.html

doloair · Post by **doloair** » Wed 13 Apr, 2011 09:18

http://www.cyberpresse.ca/photos/intern ... images.php

Vol Rio Paris
Dolorès

doloair · Post by **doloair** » Tue 03 May, 2011 18:21

Saurons nous que c est t- il passé ...du Crash Rio Paris

http://www.linfo.re/-Monde-/Crash-Rio-P ... e-repechee
Dolorès

ETBourgogne · Post by **ETBourgogne** » Sat 28 May, 2011 03:07

voilà un début de réponse :

http://www.bea.aero/fr/enquetes/vol.af. ... af.447.php

Petit-Lion · Post by **Petit-Lion** » Mon 06 Aug, 2012 14:26

http://www.bea.aero/fr/enquetes/vol.af. ... nal.fr.php

Pilotes Québec

Un Airbus manque à l'appel... Juin 2009

Un Airbus manque à l'appel!

Les ¨Boîtes Noires¨!

Re: Les ¨Boîtes Noires¨!

Airbus A330 problemes de tube pitot!...

Crash Rio Paris la remonté

l accident airbus A330 première images

La 2 ième boîte noires retrouvée

Rapport final du BEA