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Statistique aviation durant WW2, impressionnant

Posted: Fri 28 Jan, 2011 16:35
by jacdor
Un peu long et en anglais mais surprenant comme stats.
Le format c'est deplacer un peu.

JD

Most Americans who were not adults during WWII have no understanding of the magnitude of it.
This listing of some of the aircraft facts gives a bit of insight to it.


276,00 aircraft manufactured in the US. 43,000 planes lost overseas, including 23,000 in combat. 14,000 lost in the continental U.S.


The US civilian population maintained a dedicated effort for four years, many working long hours seven days per week and often also volunteering for other work.

WWII was the largest human effort in history.


Statistics from Flight Journal magazine.

THE COST of DOING BUSINESS ----

The staggering cost of war.


THE PRICE OF VICTORY

B-17 $204,370. P-40 $44,892.
B-24 $215,516. P-47 $85,578.
B-25 $142,194. P-51 $51,572.
B-26 $192,426. C-47 $88,574.
B-29 $605,360. PT-17 $15,052.
P-38 $97,147. AT-6 $22,952.

ON AVERAGE 6600 American service men

died per MONTH, during WWII (about 220 a day).

PLANES A DAY WORLDWIDE

From Germany's invasion of Poland Sept. 1, 1939

and ending with Japan's surrender Sept. 2, 1945 --- 2,433 days.

From 1942 onward, America averaged 170 planes lost a day.
Nation Aircraft Average
USA 276,400 113
S Union 137,200 56
G Britain 108,500 45
Germany 109,000 45
Japan 76,300 31

How Many is a 1,000 planes?
B-17 production (12,731) wingtip to wingtip would extend 250 miles. 1,000 B-17s carried 2.5 million gallons of high octane fuel.

Lifting 10,000 airmen to deliver 2,000 tons of bombs.

THE NUMBERS GAME
9.7 billion gallons of gasoline consumed, 1942-1945.
107.8 million hours flown, 1943-1945.
459.7 billion rounds of aircraft ammo fired overseas, 1942-1945.
7.9 million bombs dropped overseas, 1943-1945.
2.3 million combat sorties, 1941-1945 (one sortie = one takeoff).
299,230 aircraft accepted, 1940-1945.
808,471 aircraft engines accepted, 1940-1945.
799,972 propellers accepted, 1940-1945.

WWII MOST-PRODUCED COMBAT AIRCRAFT
II-2 Stum0vik 36,183
Yak 1, 3, 7, 9 31,000+
Bf 109 30,480
Fw 190 29,001
Spit/Seafire 20,351
B-24/PB4Y 18,482
Thunderbolt 15,686
Mustang 15,875
Ju 88 15,000
Hurricane 14,533
P-40 13,738
B-17 12,731
Corsair 12,571
Hellcat 12,275
Pe-2 11,400
P-38 10,037
Zero 10,449
B-25 9,984
LaGG-5 9,920
Avenger 9,837
P-39 9,584
Oscar 5,919
Mosquito 7,780
Lancaster 7,377
He 111 6,508
Halifax 6,176
Bf 110 6,150
LaGG-7 5,753
B-29 3,970
Stirling 2,383

Sources:
Rene Francillon, Japanese Aircraft of the Pacific war; Cajus Bekker, The Luftwaffe Diaries; Ray Wagner, American Combat Planes; Wikipedia.

BALL PARK AVERAGE:
Chief of Staff to General, "Hmmm; 331 men killed and 308 aircraft destroyed. That's 11 people and 10 planes per day."
"Uh, yes, sir. It's still the ballpark average."
"I'd like to see an improvement in bomber losses, those really add up."
"Were working on it, General. But it's sad to think that 10 young men alive today will be dead tomorrow."
"You know that's the price of doing business. Now then, what about the overseas and combat losses?"

According to the AAF Statistical Digest, in less than four years (December 1941- August 1945), the US Army Air Forces lost 14,903 pilots, aircrew and assorted personnel plus 13,873 airplanes --- inside the continental United States. They were the result of 52,651 aircraft accidents (6,039 involving fatalities) in 45 months.
Think about those numbers. They average 1,170 aircraft accidents per month---- nearly 40 a day. (Less than one accident in four resulted in totaled aircraft, however.)
Those colossal losses cost the Axis powers nothing; not as much as one 7.7 mm bullet.
It gets worse.....
Almost 1,000 Army planes disappeared en route from the US to foreign climes. But an eye-watering 43,581 aircraft were lost overseas including 22,948 on combat missions (18,418 against the Western Axis) and 20,633 attributed to non-combat causes overseas.
In August 1943, 60 B-17s were shot down among 376 losses. That was a 16 percent loss rate and meant 600 empty bunks in England. In 1942-43 it was statistically impossible for bomber crews to complete a 25-mission tour in Europe.
Pacific theatre losses were far less (4,530 in combat) owing to smaller forces committed. The worst B-29 mission, against Tokyo on May 25, 1945, cost 26 Superfortress, 5.6 percent of the 464 dispatched from the Marianas.
On average, 6,600 American servicemen died per month during WWII, about 220 a day. By the end of the war, over 40,000 airmen were killed in combat theatres and another 18,000 wounded. Some 12,000 missing men were declared dead, including a number "liberated" by the Soviets but never returned. More than 41,000 were captured, half of the 5,400 held by the Japanese died in captivity, compared with one-tenth in German hands. Total combat casualties were pegged at 121,867.
US manpower made up the deficit. The AAF's peak strength was reached in 1944 with 2,372,000 personnel, nearly twice the previous year's figure.
The losses were huge---but so were production totals. From 1941 through 1945, American industry delivered more than 276,000 military aircraft. That number was enough not only for US Army, Navy and Marine Corps, but for allies as diverse as Britain, Australia, China and Russia. In fact, from 1943 onward, America produced more planes than Britain and Russia combined. And more than Germany and Japan together 1941-45.
However, our enemies took massive losses. Through much of 1944, the Luftwaffe sustained uncontrolled hemorrhaging, reaching 25 percent of aircrews and 40 planes a month. And in late 1944 into 1945, nearly half the pilots in Japanese squadrons had flown fewer than 200 hours. The disparity of two years before had been completely reversed.

Experience Level:
Uncle Sam sent many of his sons to war with absolute minimums of training.
Some fighter pilots entered combat in 1942 with less than one hour in their assigned aircraft.
The 357th Fighter Group (often known as The Yoxford Boys) went to England in late 1943 having trained on P-39s.
The group never saw a Mustang until shortly before its first combat mission.
A high-time P-51 pilot had 30 hours in type. Many had fewer than five hours. Some had one hour.
With arrival of new aircraft, many combat units transitioned in combat.
The attitude was, "They all have a stick and a throttle. Go fly `em." When the famed 4th Fighter Group converted from P-47s to P-51s in February 1944, there was no time to stand down for an orderly transition.
The Group commander, Col. Donald Blakeslee, said, "You can learn to fly `51s on the way to the target.
(Note: Gone West HNL QB Brewster Morgan (Morgan's Corner up in Nuuanu off of Old Pali Road), a Honolulu boy and a member of the 4th Fighter Group, told me that they actually did stand down one day to transition from the P47 to the P51. They were pissed that the old groups still had the P47 [Brewster was with the Eagle Squadron in the Spitfire......later in the P47 when the US got into it in '42] and the newer groups coming over from the US all had P-51s.
Blakeslee finally convinced AF to let them convert by standing down just one day.
An interesting side note...Brewster was shot down over France in '44 and became a POW...his roommate?...Douglas Bader...top English ace with two wooden legs...Bader lost one of his legs when he bailed out and was captured.......the Germans asked the Brits to send him another leg......which they did).

A future P-47 ace said, "I was sent to England to die." He was not alone.
Some fighter pilots tucked their wheels in the well on their first combat mission with one previous flight in the aircraft.

Meanwhile, many bomber crews were still learning their trade:
of Jimmy Doolittle's 15 pilots on the April 1942 Tokyo raid, only five had won their wings before 1941.
All but one of the 16 copilots were less than a year out of flight school.

In WWII flying safety took a back seat to combat.
The AAF's worst accident rate was recorded by the A-36 Invader version of the P-51: a staggering 274 accidents per 100,000 flying hours.
Next worst were the P-39 at 245, the P-40 at 188, and the P-38 at 139. All were Allison powered.

Bomber wrecks were fewer but more expensive.
The B-17 and B-24 averaged 30 and 35 accidents per 100,000 flight hours, respectively- a horrific figure
considering that from 1980 to 2000 the Air Force's major mishap rate was less than 2.
The B-29 was even worse at 40; the world's most sophisticated, most capable and most expensive bomber was too urgently needed to stand down for mere safety reasons. The AAF set a reasonably high standard for B-29 pilots, but the desired figures were seldom attained.
The original cadre of the 58th Bomb Wing was to have 400 hours of multi-engine time, but there were not enough experienced pilots to meet the criterion.
Only ten percent had overseas experience.
Conversely, when a $2.1 billion B-2 crashed in 2008, the Air Force initiated a two-month "safety pause" rather than declare a "stand down", let alone grounding.
The B-29 was no better for maintenance.
Though the R3350 was known as a complicated, troublesome power-plant, no more than half the mechanics had previous experience with the Duplex Cyclone.
But they made it work.

Navigators:
Perhaps the greatest unsung success story of AAF training was Navigators. The Army graduated some 50,000 during the War. And many had never flown out of sight of land before leaving "Uncle Sugar" for a war zone. Yet the huge majority found their way across oceans and continents without getting lost or running out of fuel --- a stirring tribute to the AAF's educational establishments.

Cadet To Colonel:
It was possible for a flying cadet at the time of Pearl Harbor to finish the war with eagles on his shoulders.
That was the record of John D. Landers, a 21-year-old Texan, who was commissioned a second lieutenant on December 12, 1941.
He joined his combat squadron with 209 hours total flight time, including 2 ½ in P-40s.
He finished the war as a full colonel, commanding an 8th Air Force Group --- at age 24.
As the training pipeline filled up, however those low figures became exceptions.
By early 1944, the average AAF fighter pilot entering combat had logged at least 450 hours, usually including 250 hours in training.
At the same time, many captains and first lieutenants claimed over 600 hours.

FACT:
At its height in mid-1944, the Army Air Forces had 2.6 million people and nearly 80,000 aircraft of all types.
Today the US Air Force employs 327,000 active personnel (plus 170,000 civilians) with 5,500+ manned and perhaps 200 unmanned aircraft.
The 2009 figures represent about 12 percent of the manpower and 7 percent of the airplanes of the WWII peak.


IN SUMMATION:
Whether there will ever be another war is doubtful, as fighters and bombers have given way to helicopters and remotely-controlled drones over Afghanistan and Iraq. But within living memory, men left the earth in 1,000-plane formations and fought major battles five miles high, leaving a legacy that remains timeless.

Posted: Sat 29 Jan, 2011 09:45
by chaps90
tout un sacrifice...

Posted: Sat 29 Jan, 2011 14:57
by JJ
Merci beaucoup, tres intéressant. Il est parfois difficile d'imaginer ce que les chiffres de cette époque révelent. Mon pere est passé directement a vingt ans de sa bicyclette a un cours de vol sur fleet Finch au Cap de la Madeleine. Apres un crash, il est réorienté vers le cours de naviguateur, vole sur bombardier Wellington en Angleterre, démobilisé en 1945, il a conduit une voiture trois ou quatre ans plus tard.......

JJ

Guerre$.

Posted: Sat 29 Jan, 2011 18:05
by C-JEAN
Allo fans d'avions.

C'est le fun de voir toute l'organisation qui était requise.

C'est triste qu'il y a encore des guerre$,
et que la raison de ce$ guerre$ a changée.
La WWII, c'était vraiment pour nous défendre contre
un envahisseur fou et psychopathe ! !

MAINTENANT ???
Vous remarquerez que: où il y a du pétrole,
il y a de la guerre ! ! Et on a même fait un faux
"Pearl Harbour" (01/09/11) pour influencer
l'opinion publique ! !

Cieux bleus.

Posted: Sun 30 Jan, 2011 09:28
by Constipus
JJ wrote:Mon pere est passé directement a vingt ans de sa bicyclette a un cours de vol sur fleet Finch au Cap de la Madeleine. Apres un crash, il est réorienté vers le cours de naviguateur, vole sur bombardier Wellington en Angleterre, démobilisé en 1945
JJ
Allô tous !
JJ, merci de me remémorer ces souvenirs de nos pères.
Tu as des photos de ton père "en action " ? Ce serait vraiment interressant :)

Moi, j'ai envie d'en parler aujourd'hui dimanche. Petit hommage à papa.
Le mien aussi a fait sa part et comme ton père, il avait aussi 20 ans.
Au grand dam de son père, il s'est enrolé avec des copains. Ils se sont retrouvés à Petawawa, Ont. C'était en 1942.
Il visait l'aviation militaire, ça n'a pas marché (il s'est repris au retour dans le civil). Il a été dirigé vers la mécanique et est devenu "master mecanic", entretien de la flotte terrestre. Ça en prenait, car tout le temps qu'il a été en service, ils ont parcourus le Canada d'Est en Ouest et d'Ouest en Est à plusieurs reprises en camions. Menaces venant de l'Ouest, menaces venant de l'Est, encore et encore...

Voici quelques photos:
Il est au centre, première rangée.
Image

4e rangée, 1e à droite avec le foulard blanc
Image

Barraque No 613, Petawawa
Image

Class "master mecanic" @ 20-21 ans...
Image

Overall blanc :wink:
Image

Going WEST -- >
Image

N.B: Ça a toujours été génial de prendre des photos, non ? oui ?

Al 8)
(qui possède une centaine de ces photos)
= = = = = = = = = = = = =

Posted: Sun 30 Jan, 2011 11:03
by GLAB
C'est pas croyable tout les sacrifices humains pour la guerre. J'espère que c'est fini pour ces conflits mondiale.

Mon Papa est aller à la première guerre mondiale. Le bateau sur lequel il était pour aller en Europe s'est fait couler au large de Terre Neuve. Il a été secouru par des bateaux de pêcheurs terre-neuviens. J'adore les Newfies. j'en ai connu plusieurs qui travaillaient comme guides dans les pourvoiries dans le nord. J'ai eu tellement de plaisir avec eux. Ce sont des bons vivants comme on dit. Je les ai remercier pour ce que peut-être leur parents ont fait pour sauver mon père.

Un mois plus tard, il repartait pour l'Angleterre sur un autre bateau.

Durant la deuxième guerre mondiale, l'armé l'a appeler pour servir comme vétérant, mais ma mère s'y est opposer parce qu'ils avaient déjà 9 enfants. Alors mon Papa a entrainer des hommes pour les préparer à la guerre.

Je n'ai aucune photo et Papa ne voulais jamais nous en parler.

Jacques

Posted: Sun 30 Jan, 2011 11:55
by Frank-Mtl
GLAB wrote: Je n'ai aucune photo et Papa ne voulais jamais nous en parler.

Jacques
Ceux qui ont vécu les guerres refusaient souvent d'en parler. Plusieurs de ces hommes à la fin de leur vie, lorsque on leurs parlait de la guerre, il venaient les yeux pleins d'eau mais ne disaient rien. :cry:

Soyons fiers d'eux (et pas seulement le 11 novembre).


Frank

Posted: Sun 30 Jan, 2011 12:12
by C-GBVK
Bonjour
WWII MOST-PRODUCED COMBAT AIRCRAFT
II-2 Stum0vik 36,183
Yak 1, 3, 7, 9 31,000+
Bf 109 30,480
Fw 190 29,001
Spit/Seafire 20,351
B-24/PB4Y 18,482
Thunderbolt 15,686
Mustang 15,875
Ju 88 15,000
Hurricane 14,533
P-40 13,738


Quelques chose m'intrigue dans ces chiffres particulierment dans pour les avions de chasse Russe.
En 1939 ils avaient peu d'avion des Polikarpov I-16 (Rata) et des avions aux performances inferieurs a leur enemie. c'est seulement dans les années 41 que la production des Iliouchine 2 (Stormovik) a démarrer, la production a grande échelle 1943 certains documents parlent de 35 000 un avion bien armé Canonde 37mm blindé , polivalent, pour attaque des tanks , performent pour se mesuer au Fw190 et BF109 plus frileux a-30 . Je me demande comment il réussisait a former dans un temps relativement court autand de pilote pour ces avions ? (si les assurances exigeaient un 15 heures de roue de queue ??) Si les chiffres de production sont pas étalé aprés 1945 ?
Il serait interessant d'avoir les statisique du nombres de pilotes active par pays pendant ces periodes , quand on sait la durée de vie de ces avions etaient plutot courte, géneralement moins de 100 heures , encore moins pour les pilotes .. un moteur de BF109 avait un potentiel 180heures
La demande de pilote de remplacement devaient etre une préocupation plus difficile que a gérer que la construction d'avions , et conserver des pilotes experimentés pour entrainer les nouveaux , quand on sait que les nouveaux se faisaient descendre dans les premieres sorties au combat , pas eut la chance de prendre de l'éxperience .

André